frustrated

Saturday we had this thing where it would start almost effortlessly nearly every time with the kick-starter.
Yesterday we were just test testing continuity of a few components to see if we could determine why the charging system wasn't working.
Tested the rectifier and the voltage regulator and they both seem OK based on the testing procedure found in the Clymer's manual. The leads for the alternator all checked as per the book as well.  The only static test we didn't do was the checking of  the alternator core just because I wasn't exactly sure how to do it and ran out of time due to other commitments. So far we haven't found anything we could put our finger on but that's as far as it has gone for now because the infernal machine won't start. Occasionally it will fire and sputter but mostly nothing.
Battery was fully charged when I started this morning (because I charged it) but the engine just doesn't want to cooperate.
I think I'll let it slide for the day and enjoy the company of my lady.

As veiwed from the side-car of the Ural

Sometimes a step backward is really a step in the right direction.
Tony and I had been piddling around with the Honda some for a couple of days without a lot of success. To be honest it was kind of a half hearted piddle, until yesterday.
For a few days it was: try to start it, it catches briefly and dies, and we are looking at on-line trouble shooting guides to find the symptoms...fires up and then just quits. Gradually it gets to sounding a progressively worse, until it gets to the point where sometimes it starts to sound like the starter clutch isn't actually engaging all the time. Then Thursday we began trying to get it started via the kick starter, forsaking the convenience of the electric starter to avoid hearing the sound. The results were the same until...it just locked up. Totally locked up.
In my mind I was thinking that it was the same old problem with the alternator/starter clutch.
So yesterday I pulled the left cover and sure enough... The new starter sprocket retaining plate was bent, the sprocket had just about totally disengaged from the starter clutch, and the starter chain was bound up against the side of the crank-case housing and tight as a banjo string (I used to have a banjo so I know how tight the strings are and that's not just a trite expression I'm throwing around loosely.) For some reason one of the screws attaching the starter clutch to the alternator rotor had backed out (I lock-tited them) and forced the sprocket out of position. This was a problem with this bike before I got it, and after seeing what happened this time I'm figuring this is how the kick-starter shaft got broken in the first place.
I don't know why these screws won't stay tight, I just know they won't and I may be at the point that I don't care.
We take all that mess out, (by the way, all the parts I've been ordering and waiting on for the last month were in that little sub-assembly), readjust the idle screws on the carbs back to the point that someone recommended either here or on facebook, and kick her over and...whoa! Fires right up and is idling smoothly at 1400 rpm! We repeat this several times just to be sure it wasn't a fluke, and it fires up everytime with one or two kicks.
So we spend an hour or so checking and adjusting the brakes and adjusting the clutch (is the sweet-spot on the clutch adjustment really that hard to hit?) before deciding that we've reached the point that there's nothing left to do but to do it.
Tony follows in the Ural and Desiree records the event on her i-phone from the side car.

And now some questions...
At the end it died. The ride was just over a mile. I was just going around the block so luckily when it died we were only about 200 yards from the house.
It seemed to be running pretty well initially. Plenty of power, plenty of pick-up, but after about 3/4 mile it strated coughing and missing pretty bad.
When it stopped the battery was dead. No horn, no nothing.
We pushed it up the street a ways and when we got almost back Tony tried it and the horn was working and it fired up (less than 5 minutes elapsed.)
So, what to look for now? Not charging? Dead short? Where should I start looking and what testing can be done?

Trusting your gut

One of the initial problems I had with this bike was the alternator rotor.  The key was missing, and the holes were so wallowed out that the screws attaching it to the starter clutch wouldn't stay tight.  As a result, the hole for the pin which was supposed to lock everything up nice and snug was also worn out, and way out of round.  I never found anyone who could fix it and I couldn't find a replacement.  (My son found one and gave it to me.)
Anyway, when I put this all back in, I tried using the original pin (rhymes with original sin) even though I could tell it was worn.  Not nearly as bad as the hole it was supposed to fit but it was worn and I knew it.

When we originally tried last year to start her (I'm starting to lean towards "Sadie" as a name) the sound of the engine turning over sounded differently as the alternator screws worked their way loose.  I thought I had a hint of that the other day when I tried to restart her.
I knew I was going to have to pull that alternator to be sure it wasn't coming apart again...I didn't want to go backwards but I didn't want to screw up that new rotor either.
Sure enough, things were starting to get loose.  Not bad, not yet, but it wouldn't have taken a whole lot more.
I called around to some local places to see if maybe they'd have at least the pin but no one had it.  I decided to try the place where I ordered the retaining plate for the starter sprocket.
They seemed to have it, so I ordered some new screws and the plate that goes between the starter clutch and the rotor that holds all the little goodies inside and the little spring caps for the clutch because one of them seemed to want to hang up and let the roller kind of flop at times, and I'm hopeful that the order confirmation e-mail I got means that they really did have the parts.  Now I just have to sit and wait by the mail box every day till they come.
It's a real downer to have gotten so close only to have to wait on parts again but... it is what it is. 
I feel good that I had enough sense to check it out rather than to just push blindly forward and screw something up again.
By the way...here is a link to the dealer that I've had some luck with as far as finding parts:
http://www.westernhillshondayamaha.com/

In the beginning

LiveJournal Tags: motorcycle,motorcycle repair,liquid tape,honda,honda CB500T,CB500 T,alternator

Saturday, June27
Today I took possession of a 1976 Honda CB500 T motorcycle.  My son Tony brought it up from Charleston for me to tinker with.  (I had made 2 failed attempts to drive down to pick it up.  Both times I was thwarted by my Jeep over-heating.)  Tony had owned this bike for about a year and had had limited success with getting/keeping it running.  He finally decided he'd rather ride his new Kawasaki than work on this old Honda.  I know almost nothing about motorcycles but have had a moderate yearning for one for a while but could never really bring myself to make the leap.  Perhaps the most astonishing aspect of this is that my wife didn't object.  She actually has been rather supportive to the extent that she actually found a friend to loan me a trailer with which to get the bike.  This is a major turnabout for her since in the past any mention of a motorcycle was met with scorn and ridicule.
Here's what I knew about this particular bike: a) it didn't run, although I had heard it run once, b) the electric starter was non-functional, c) the kick starter was broken off, d) when Tony had gotten it running it was never for very long.  I am looking forward to the challenge of getting this thing going at least as much as I am actually riding it.  Maybe even more because let's face it, at my age and with my total lack of motorcycle riding experience, I'm much safer sitting on the floor in my garage working on the thing than riding it.
Over all the bike looks to be in decent shape for being 33 years old.  The chrome is all bad, rusty and pitted (but solid) but not as bad as might be expected for being in the salty air for so many years.  I like the style of it a lot, and if I get her running and reliable it might be worthwhile to do some restoration, you know, get some parts re-chromed and what-not.
Tony also brought along a couple boxes of miscellaneous parts, some of which were for the electric starter which he had taken out since he couldn't get it working anyway.  the first thing we did Saturday was to reinstall these parts.  While doing so I noticed that there was a key way cut into the rotor for the alternator but there was no key.  This looked wrong but what do I know about these things.  After putting it together and trying it out it sounded as the engine was not turning, the alternator was just spinning around on the crankshaft.  Tony got out the manual and I was looking over his shoulder and saw a mention of the woodruff key.  I said we hadn't put one in.  He asked what it looked like and I drew him a picture.  He said he'd seen something like that fall out a while back and didn't know what it was and just tossed it into a box.  We found one at a small engine repair shop and installed it.  It wasn't an exact fit but we managed to get it in, but the battery was too weak to turn the engine over.
Then there were these three screws which kept mysteriously wearing out in the middle.  I think these were the original reason Tony had given up on the electric starter.  They connected the starter clutch to the rotor of the alternator.  The cause of this wear is obviously caused by the wallowing out of the hole where the dowel pin locks the clutch to the rotor, which can be seen in the right photo below.
                    
It was my feeling that the reason he could never keep the bike running very  long was that without the key in the shaft, the alternator wasn't actually charging the battery so when the battery ran down the bike quit.
The next day (Sunday June 28) we got a battery, charged it and installed it.  The engine turned over and actually fired up, but only briefly.  Then the poor fit of the key came into play and the rotor began mostly slipping again catching occasionally but not long enough to actually do any good.  But it was a promising sign, I thought.

Monday, June 29
I tore back into it and found another problem.  I actually think I may have created this one.  The wires for the alternator were damaged because they were not fun through the slot in the housing.  On a positive note I found the rubber grommet that was missing which caused the alternator wires to get damaged, and which Tony says had been causing a small oil leak.  At some point in time it had slid up the wires and gotten out of sight.  If I can find an electrical repair shop to fix those wires I'll be in good shape there.
I found another key today at Home Depot, but it isn't an exact fit either.  I'll either have to modify it or try to find one at a motorcycle shop.  (I actually found the right one on-line for @ $2.50 but the shipping was $14.95.)
Tuesday, June 30.
2 words..."liquid tape."
I took the alternator down to the auto electrical repair shop today.  The guy took one look and said "I don't really work on that stuff."  Where the wires were damaged he said he couldn't splice them because they wouldn't have room to be flexed in the housing the way they needed to be.  I knew that, and that was the reason I decided to take it to the shop.  I was hoping he'd just replace them, but he wouldn't do that.  Another guy came out of the back of the shop and told him to put some "liquid tape" on it.  The first guy said he didn't have any more.  I wasn't sure how to take this 'cause I'd never heard of "liquid tape."
Then the second guy says "just go over to Auto Zone or Advance Auto, they'll probably have some.  It's like the paste you used in school with the little brush and all."  Well, I was feeling a little foolish but I went to Auto Zone and asked for "liquid tape."  The sales-dude in Auto Zone looked kind of quizzical and asked a sales-dudette who pointed to a display on the counter.  Did you know they have a spray on product called "Liquid Duct Tape?"  Well, they couldn't find any of what I was looking for and didn't really know what I was talking about so I went to Advance.  I asked the clerk if they had liquid tape.  He actually knew what I was talking about but said that they no longer carried it.  He described it the same way the guy at the repair shop did so I figured maybe I wasn't actually on a snipe hunt.  I decided to try the local Wal-Mart Super Center, and what do you think?  They had it, and I bought it, and while it was kind of messy to work with, it seemed to do the trick.  Below are before and after photos of the damaged wiring and in the center:  what to look for if you have a problem.  (this is an unsolicited testimonial)